Not sure where to put this so mods please move if necessary.

I am taking one parse example on 25 man 4h regarding replinishment. You can clearly see that the more int you have the higher the tick..Ie in my WWS i believe Veronikya and Anejo have the most int and thus proc 57-58 ish per tick. My question is why did I get the least benefit from replinishment. I had a higher HPS time than the other priest 87 vs 89 % of fight and I also have less regen than the other priest therefore I would conclude that I probably had less mana than that priest for most the fight. Now I understand that it targets 10 lowest mana users...but im baffled..thoughts? Is there a range issue I am not aware of?

As I understand it, replenishment is dependent on the following things:
- The 10 people with lowest mana (I suspect a perctenage) get the buff
- It gives you 3.5% of your total mana over 14 seconds

You haven't linked a WSS reported, so can't take a look and compare mana pools and int levels to see why others may be getting more mana back than you. At the very least, it has nothing at all to do with your hps numbers.

Hope that helps somewhat.

Doh...-50dkp
http://wowwebstats.com/vlmdbmlanlchu?ab=57669

I noted the hps numbers to generate an estimate of who would have a lower mana pool by X time into the fight. Seems the healers with huge mana pools really arent getting nearly as much as those who dps. Perhaps there should be a certian point in a fight where you would want to burn your cooldowns to get maximum effect from replinishment???

edit: assuming a higher HpS I am assuming a lower mana pool but perhaps my mana pool base point is much higher than say a dpser..which i dont think is the case.

lol


A diminishing return from replenishment.. interesting! Awesome, in fact. It supports my theory that replenishment should not be accounted for 100% effect. It may also explain why I received a low % of Replenishment while our ret pala wasn't slacking.

+ 50 dkp!!

I've considered trying to keep the % of mana in my mana pool lower to gain the replenishment buff more often. However, this would be irresponsible and I'm sure I'd need that mana just when I was trying to get replenishment.

Consider this WSS report with a list of who got replenishment over the whole raid: http://wowwebstats.com/utcyxvddaacho?ab=57669

I as a CoH priest got 8.7k mana back over 158 ticks, with an average of 54 mana per tick. One other holy priest got approximately the same. The third holy priest got 55.2k mana over 1076 ticks with an average of 51 mana per tick.

Now, why should one priest with nearly the same spec get so much more mana back than the others? If we look at the WSS healing report for the whole night (http://wowwebstats.com/utcyxvddaacho), the holy priest with that amazing replenishment gain had 17% of the healing done (7.5 million), while I had 16% of the healing done (7.4 million). We both had 99% presence.

That means that the following factors are constant:
- Healing output
- Returned mana per tick (so our mana pools are probably comparable, too)

Note that I haven't even looked at things like dispelling or damage, these could also change things a little.

So if I'm reasoning this correctly, for the same amount of healing done, one or more of the following must be true:
- The other priest was doing less healing for the same amount of mana
- The other priest's mana regen wasn't as good
- The other priest's spells cost more mana

If I check, our spells were landing for close to the same amount of healing.

So... I wonder what else influences this?

I wouldn't really call it a "diminishing return from" Replenishment so much as a normalizing or smoothing effect. After all, if the assumption that Replenishment is applied to the 10 mana-using targets (within range) with the lowest percentage of remaining mana is true, then the effect's affinity towards damage dealing classes is to be expected, for several reasons:

1. Melee/physical damage dealing classes/specs that utilize mana tend to be designed around the "infinite" mana philosophy: they don't usually focus on large mana pools because they are given the tools to regenerate the majority of their normal mana expenditures fairly rapidly. This means that characters such as Retribution Paladins, Enhancement Shamans, and Hunters are all going to be slightly favored by Replenishment since each spell they cast takes a significant portion of their total mana, and even though they get it back fairly quickly they are likely to be labeled as one of the "10 mana-using targets (within range) with the lowest percentage of remaining mana", especially early on in a fight.
2. Offensive caster classes/specs focus on very similar stats as healing classes/specs focus on, but have the additional burden of spending itemization points on hit rating (and potentially spell penetration). This means that given two characters of equal gear level, one offensive caster and one healer, chances are the healer will have slightly more mana than the offensive caster.
   
3. As healers, we are limited by the amount of damage our allies take. Sure, we can overheal as much as we wish so that we drain our mana pool and thus become more likely to gain Replenishment, but the potential risk of something going horribly wrong (tank or another healer disconnecting, damage dealer pulling aggro, adds, etc. etc.) is often greater than the reward of gaining Replenishment. On the other hand, damage dealers are only limited by their ability cooldowns, the tank's threat, and the health of their target(s), meaning that they tend to be rewarded for dumping as much mana as possible as fast as possible on short fights (such as trash pulls), thereby placing themselves higher on Replenishment's affinity list.
   
4. Healing spells tend to have larger spell power coefficients than damage spells, and thus "health per second" and "health per mana" scale faster for healers than "damage per second" and "damage per mana" does for offensive casters. This, combined with the itemization issue and incoming damage limitation (above), makes me think that healers begin to outgear encounters faster than our damage-dealing friends. By this I don't mean that later content becomes easier because healers will outgear it, but rather that as gear improves any one given encounter will become increasingly less mana intensive for a healer at a faster rate than for an offensive caster.
   
5. Some damage dealing classes/specs have a playstyle that can be divided into two basic phases—a "burn" phase and a "regen" phase. A prime example of this would be Hunters. As I understand it, Hunters maximize their damage output using [Aspect of the Dragonhawk] and then switch to [Aspect of the Viper] when they run low on mana. Once they have enough mana to comfortably resume their burn phase, they return to [Aspect of the Dragonhawk] and rinse and repeat. These types of playstyles tend to get the largest share of Replenishment applications since they spend a proportionally larger amount of time with low mana than other playstyles.

@Avonar:

• Your numbers are not quite right. According to the WWS you linked, both other Priests gained ~51 mana per tick, whereas you gained ~54. This means (and a quick armory check confirmed) the other two priests have a fairly similar mana pool—it turns out they're within 100 mana of each other—and you have a noticably higher mana pool—nearly 2000 more mana.
  
• Judging by WWS data, you and the Priest with a huge amount of mana regenerated from Replenishment have a very similar healing style. The biggest difference (relatively speaking, since it's actually quite a small difference) is that she seems to prefer Prayer of Healing over Flash Heal whereas you prefer the opposite. She most likely gained more Replenishment ticks than you did because of her lower mana pool.
  
• "- The other priest was doing less healing for the same amount of mana"
  This seems to be correct. You seem to have a bit more than 100 more spell power than she does, so chances are her heals were slightly lighter than yours (and thus had lower HPM, since mana cost is constant).
  
• "- The other priest's mana regen wasn't as good"
  Again, probably true. You seem to have nearly 100 more O5SR mana regen than she does, though your I5SR regen is almost identical.
  
• "- The other priest's spells cost more mana"
  Sorry, I'm too lazy to wade through the talent pools of a class I don't play to check that data. Hopefully an experienced Priest will be willing to examine the differences in specs to see if this is true or not.
  
• "So... I wonder what else influences this?"
  See yonder chunk o' text above. Also, in the process of gathering spellpower, mana pool, and mana regeneration data, I noticed that your raid seems to only have had one Replenishment-buffing member. This could also account for the extreme difference in mana regeneration you noticed. I think this may have essentially been a case where that Priest just got lucky enough to usually be under Replenishment's 10-person cut-off while you and the other Priest were just a bit out of its scope. I suspect that a second Replenishment-giver would greatly smooth out the numbers.

Also, I didn't know that Warlock pets could be targeted by Replenishment. Those two Felguards and I think it's a Felhound ate up a ridiculous portion of the Replenishment buffs. Dey took y'r jerbs!!! Er...I mean...Replenishments!

Those are some seriously fascinating insights, Gryphonheart. I didn't actually expect anyone to look so deeply into the numbers - thank you!

We do now have a few more people handing out replenishment, though I don't have a more recent WSS report.

But seriously, great stuff!

yup...pretty crazy that lock pets can knock a raider off the "replinishment list"

I haven't seen much discussion of this anywhere, but my guild has noticed something odd in our 10-man WWS parses. We have a couple of excellent replenishers (mix of Ret paladins, shadow priests, and survival hunters) who all have very respectable uptime % in 5 mans or 10-man raids when they are the sole replenisher. However when we run with multiple replenishers, the uptime on replenish (calculated by # of ticks over the course of the fight) seems to drop precipitously.

Here's my theory on what I think might be happening:

The replenishment buff ticks every second for 14 seconds. If replenishment is reapplied it overwrites the existing replenishment buff resetting the overall AND THE TICK TIMER. What this means is that if you already have replenishment and its about to tick (say 0.2 seconds away from ticking) and replenishment is reapplied, then the time between the tick you just had and the next time increases from 1 second to 1.8 seconds. Worst case, imagine a 25 man with 15 replenishers where replenishment is being reapplied every 0.5 seconds - despite have 100% uptime on replenishment, no one would get any ticks of replenishment.

Has anyone else noticed this effect?

This is partially correct. My guildies have investigated this as well. One of my guildies came up with this theory:



So far I have not been able to waylay this, which should be rather easy to do if it is wrong. Hence, I'm starting to believe he's right.