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Split leadership

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interesting topic...ill take a stab at it.

first, I dont know any truly good GMs that after so long just leave for an ENTIRE year to play another game then just comes back and expects to be handed GM back to them. Whats to say original GM wont do it again in the future? Im sure he is a nice guy and performed GM role well, but leaving and returning like that doesnt do anyone any good.

have you communicated with new GM at all about his weaknesses? Never underestimate the power of communication. If you guys are progressing under his raid leadership then thats a plus - means he is good at something and isnt a complete deadbeat. But even the smartest of people just dont "get" certain things.

Maybe you can talk with him about not relinquishing GM role (as that would put him on the defensive too soon), but allowing splitting up the responsibilites between you two. Im sure you alraedy have a list of things he just doesnt "get" or do. Present that list and have you two agree about which responsbilities you and him are responsible for. This way, if he agrees to certain tasks and still fails, you have something concrete to hold him accountable for and might help in your decisions down the road whether to leave or not.

btw what are the other tasks he is oblivious to?
Posted Nov 14, 12
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When the original GM left for EVE, he took half the guild with him. The guild moved and half stayed because half didn't want to change games.

I've told the new GM what things they need to work on better but it hasnt changed. they think they are doing their job. But they do not talk to people or call them out when the person is doing something wrong or can do better, I have to acknowledge that to them in order for them to do it at all. Any type of leadership decision I usually have to start. They randomly invite people to the guild even after an officer gives reasons to not invite the person. Most of the time they do not make decisions at all or if they do it is without the agreement of officers. If drama occurs in raid they just sit back and let it happen and I have to clean up the mess. If we have 8/10 people log on for raid they would rather call it than find a friend or pug, which in turn can put us behind on progression due to not having that time learning a new fight. When we were on rolling for loot, they didn't seem to mind when someone was being a loot whore, or called them out. I would be the one to do it. Basically, people get away with doing things that hurt the guild. Recruitment? that is my job, the GM doesn't even bother. Pretty much the only thing they do is Raid lead. Being a raid leader isn't the same thing as being GM and they don't seem to know that.

I do not want GM, I'd prefer if the original GM was GM. It would be a good outcome if the two GM's could agree on splitting roles and one being GM and one being RL but I do not see that happening.
Posted Nov 14, 12 · OP
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I agree that there are issues with your current GM, but frankly your old GM doesn't sound all that good either. I mean when he left for Eve the guild actually lost half its members because of it, and now he wants to come back and be GM again? It sounds to me he's done his share of damage to your guild already.

How many officers are there in the guild, and what are the other officers' views on all this? Also what kind of guild is this as far as raiding in concerned? Our guild is essentially a group of friends that try to raid, but frankly if we are missing a few there is a very good chance we will just call it for the night rather than pug strangers for the shake of running (friends might be ok though and we've done that some times). Also what loot distribution system are you guys using? Those things need to be set in stone in my view.
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Posted Nov 14, 12
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When the original GM left he gave us notice, and let us find someone to fill his raid spot. We recovered without having to sit on our butts waiting for people to log on. Tbh, our current GM also has left the guild before for a few months, screwing us over without notice.

There are two other officers in the guild. Only one agrees with me, the other, which is just a raid leader officer, doesnt. The majority of the guild members and raiders have been together for years but most of us want to progress with pugs if someone is absent so we can learn. We are now, after I insisited and after the horrible mess of people being loot whores, using officer loot system.
Posted Nov 14, 12 · OP
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sounds like they are barely even raid leading to begin with....do you even like these people? When you say most of the raid members have been raiding together for years but insist on being loot whores that doesnt sound very friendly? Constant drama doesnt help that story either.

One key statement you made was you have no intention of being GM. In other words, you want the problems solved, but just not by you mainly. And thats fine, we all play this game in different ways for different reasons. I would think though that if you dont want to be the person to solve these issues and assume that role, then ultimately you need to find a different guild that already has a leadership structure to it where you dont have to assume those responsbilities.

what is keeping you in this guild then?
Posted Nov 14, 12
3 posts
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Oh the loot whores left when I cracked down on loot. I like some of the people :)

I do not want GM, I am an officer. I will glady solve problems, I just dont want to be the ONLY one doing it. Or the one assuming all roles except raid lead. Problems are supposed to be solved together in leadership, we are supposed to work together as a team. Not just have me point out and fix everything.
Posted Nov 14, 12 · OP
76 posts
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seems like you already talked to them and they think they are doing their job so nothing is going to change in your view.

your'e in a tricky spot where the current GM doesnt act like a GM but you dont want to be a GM either. So you basically have to convince him through powers of persuasion to pick up the responsibilities and not depend solely on you.

idk man...maybe someone with a different mindset can offer some suggestions but I tend to be pretty black and white. In my opinion you discussed your issues with them and they do not listen relying on you to fix everything. So long as you fix everything they have no reason to fix anything themselves. Of course if you dont fix, other people get hurt, I know.

hopefully someone else can chime in with a more elegant solution.
Posted Nov 14, 12
2 posts
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I also wants to say like that seems like you already talked to them and they think they are doing their job so nothing is going to change in your view.hope you will be understand
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Posted Oct 8, 13
98 posts
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Yes you generally cant fix attitude - IRL or in game. If they are of a mind not to see a problem they wont.
In that situation you have three options:
1) Take on the task of solving it yourself,
2) Decide you can accept the status quo,
3) Leave for a better situation.
And well #1 is out so that leaves #2 & #3 :-(
Morality is not obedience. Morality derives from empathy and a sense of communal obligation with our fellow human beings.
- PZ Myers
Posted Oct 9, 13
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