Plus Heal|Site Info
Page
of 2

10m Garalon

16 replies
24 posts
Untagged users
Oleander wrote:
The legs are essentially bonus damage. Any damage done to the legs without the debuff reduces that bonus. It's important that ranged dps do not try to maximize their personal dps by multidotting and burning down legs that are 35yd away, as doing so reduces the overal dps of the raid.

can you explain what you mean by this? i could be misunderstanding how it works, but each leg's health is equal to 3% of the boss's health, and the boss loses 3% when each leg dies.

therefore, i figured damage done to the leg is exactly equal to damage done to the boss (ignoring the leg buff for a moment). so if you can cleave / multidot, it would be a dps increase; but if you are punished for target switching, it's a dps loss.

when you figure in the weak points buff, it's an obvious dps increase to attack the leg if you are in its circle. but i don't understand the reason that cleaving / multidotting distant legs is a bad thing if you're not in the circle?
Posted Jan 9, 13
410 posts
Admins
Moderators
If I understand Oleander's post correctly (and I'm not entirely sure that I do), the argument essentially boils down to opportunity cost:

  • 1 point of damage dealt to Garalon is equivalent of 1 point of damage dealt to Garalon
  • 1 point of damage dealt to Garalon's Leg with Weak Point is equivalent of 2 points of damage dealt to Garalon
  • 1 point of damage dealt to Garalon's Leg without Weak Point is equivalent of 1 point of damage dealt to Garalon, but costs your raid the opportunity of doing 1 point of bonus damage with Weak Point

Of course, this assumes that your raid group is destroying Garalon's Legs at least as fast as - if not faster than - he can mend them, and therefore choosing to deal damage directly to Garalon instead of his legs is actually an option without compromising your raid's ability to kite. (I haven't done this fight outside of Raid Finder, so I have no idea how reasonable an assumption this is.)

So, if you aren't benefiting from Weak Point, you're better off just killing Garalon directly, because doing so boosts the potential damage output of those who are benefiting from Weak Point, thereby increasing your raid's overall potential DPS.

In regards to multidotting, this means that unless your multidotting can increase your damage rate by close to 100% per leg, then it's better to take the personal DPS loss in order to allow those who are benefiting from Weak Point to be able to deal double damage for that much longer.

Did I get that right, Oleander?
Posted Jan 10, 13
177 posts
Untagged users
That is dead on Gryphonheart.
Of course classes that get procs from dots (moonkin free starsurge on dot crit for example), should multidot to optimize their dps.
I have seen moonkin go and stand in the circle to get weak point buff for that matter though, so they don't actually steal too much possible weak point damage.

Where melee is usually running between 3 legs, a multidotter should basically stay between 2 legs and only go get the weak point buff when one of those legs are up, in order to not lose too much dps from constant running.
Posted Jan 10, 13
394 posts
Untagged users
Gryphon: Yep, that's exactly what I was saying. Though a correction for your third point: every point of damage done without the buff wastes 1/2 a point of bonus damage. (It's equivalent to the person in the circle but doing half as much raw damage.)

To your other question, we had an excellent frost DK and two hunter pets. The legs are mended roughly once every 30s, and ours were dying in <= 25. We were able to kite with one leg up. Once we got used to it, it even seemed a little more natural.

Eplixx: So the 50% ratio is the decider in considering specific cleave/multidot abilities. A moonkin would need to have their personal dps go up by more than 50% as a result of applying the extra dots in order to make up for the opportunity cost of applying them from outside the circle. Starfall would always be a win. Of course, it's even better to do such things from inside the circle!
Posted Jan 10, 13
24 posts
Untagged users
i understand what you meant now. our situation is a bit different in that we have no melee for that fight. therefore, it's only ranged using the weak points buff, and there are times when a weak points circle is unreachable. i guess i was confused in that it sounded like you were saying multidotters were not helping kill him faster, but only padding their stats.

we were consistently killing the legs faster than he mended them.
Posted Jan 10, 13
394 posts
Untagged users
Yeah, if no one is going to be dpsing a particular leg from inside its circle, then you're abandoning that bonus damage entirely and it doesn't matter. On the legs that people do use the circles, anyone dpsing them from outside the circle is stealing dps from those inside, and possibly getting less dps in return.

In an all ranged group, I think I'd consider splitting it so that you have tanks on the front left, group 1 on the right legs and group 2 on the back legs. Then you wouldn't be losing any of the bonus damage.
Posted Jan 10, 13
24 posts
Untagged users
got this down on the 2nd night of trying. we 2 tank/3 healed it, so our only real challenge was the enrage timer. if anyone else is having low percentage wipes like we were, here's how we fixed it:
*tank + 3 healers kite, so dps can focus only on damage
*heroism immediately to get the full benefit of pre-pot + initial cooldowns + leg buffs
*for classes (or players) who have difficulty effectively utilizing the leg buff, just nuke the boss
*be sure one healer always rotates to the back of the bug so nobody is out of range

shaman-specific tips that i used:
*spec primal elementalist and use your elementals on cooldown. fire guy first for dps and then earth guy for healing buff/damage reduction. you have to re-cast earth ele buff every crush!
*glyph riptide (yuck, but very effective on this fight)
*time HTT or HST so that it's down before a crush (or even UE-buffed HR if people happen to be stacked)
*earth shield on the current kiter (except yourself)
*when i was kiting, i weaved in a TC lightning bolt every time i dropped a puddle. i also kept up flame shock and lava burst
*stone bulwark totem while kiting or for crushes if you're low on health
Posted Jan 14, 13
Page
of 2
Announcement of